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Episode #171: "Building Habits for a Healthy Safety Culture" with Claire Harris, President of Clean Energy Connections [an Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast]

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Nuclear energy is definitely having a resurgent moment across the power sector and the world, as more and more regions are tapping into the carbon-free source of electricity to meet reliability requirements paired with emissions reduction goals. But one of the questions that often follows the discussion of nuclear energy is safety. In the latest episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast, returning guest Claire Harris, now President of Clean Energy Connections, joins the discussion to cover the critical topic of building habits for a healthy safety culture in the energy industry, in nuclear and in other areas as well.

With her extensive background in nuclear safety and performance improvement, Claire shares with host Jason Price and Producer Matt Chester her insights on how to foster a culture that prioritizes safety across all levels of a utility organization. This episode is particularly timely, being recorded during North American Occupational Safety and Health Week, and underscores the importance of safety in the energy sector, where risks such as electrocution, falls, and environmental stress are prevalent. Claire uncovers the importance of developing high standards, fostering a sense of belonging, and encouraging open communication and honest feedback within teams. This episode is a must-listen for energy professionals looking to enhance their understanding of safety culture and implement effective practices within their organizations.

Prefer to Read vs. Listening? Scroll Down to Read Transcript

Thanks to the sponsor of this episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast: West Monroe. 

 

Key Links:

Claire Harris on Energy Central: https://energycentral.com/member/profile/claire-harris-0

Claire's First Appearance on the Podcast: https://energycentral.com/o/energy-central/episode-109-intentional-inclusion-cleaner-energy-future-claire-harris-nb-power  

Ask a Question to Our Future Guests: Do you have a burning question for the utility executives and energy industry thought leaders that we feature each week on the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast? Do you want to hear your voice on a future episode? Well starting in 2024, we’re offering you that opportunity! Head to this link where you can leave us a recorded message, including a question you’re eager to have answered on a future episode of the podcast. We’ll listen through them, pick out the right guests in our upcoming lineup to address them, and you’ll hear yourself as a part of the conversation! Energy Central on SpeakPipe: www.speakpipe.com/EnergyCentralPodcast 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Jason Price:

Welcome to the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast. This is the show that brings leading minds from the energy industry to discuss the challenges and trends that are transforming and modernizing our energy system. And a quick thank you to West Monroe, our sponsor of today's show. I also want to highlight something new for 2024, which is our listeners can now submit a recorded question to a future podcast episode. Just look for the SpeakPipe link in the show notes below this episode, and leave us a voicemail with a question for a future guest. Now, let's talk energy.

I am Jason Price, Energy Central Podcast host and director with West Monroe, coming to you from New York City. And I'm joined once again by the producer of this show, Matt Chester, dialing in from Orlando, Florida. Matt, we have the pleasure of chatting with a guest who has joined us in the past, Claire Harris. For those who may have missed her first appearance on the podcast, please give them a quick overview of that conversation and remind them where they can find it.

 

Matt Chester:

Sure thing, Jason. So Claire joined us a bit over a year ago in Episode 109. That conversation was titled Intentional Inclusion for a Cleaner Energy Future, where Claire was also joined by Chief Emily Whetung of Curve Lake Nation to talk about how the region's indigenous populations were engaged and consulted as the power sector and the region embraced nuclear energy. It was a terrific listen, and what I'll do is make sure to throw a link into the show notes for any audience members who may want to play catch up with our first conversation with Claire.

 

Jason Price:

Thanks Matt. And with this episode being on the heels of the North American Occupational Safety and Health Week, the topic of conversation couldn't be any more pertinent, OSHA highlights that nearly 3.4 worker fatalities per 100,000 full-time workers in the United States. And with OSHA cited risks in the utility sector of electrocution, confined space, fires and explosions, environmental stress and more, safety is of course a paramount energy industry conversation. And just to highlight some of what utilities are doing, I want to point out that consumers energy in Michigan has its own Memorial Day on May 7th and reported that approximately 208 co-workers in its 138 year history has lost their lives.

And to help guide us in all that conversation, Claire is amidst launching her company Clean Energy Connections that is allowing her to make the wealth of knowledge she's gathered during her years at Envy Power and use that to advise utility players on building a culture of safety, especially in her sweet spot of nuclear power. I think we'd all agree that safety is a top priority and a topic no matter what area of the power sector we're talking. So that is no doubt, a fundamentally critical conversation. So let's jump right in by inviting Claire once again to join us in the virtual podcast booth. Claire Harris, welcome to the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast.

 

Claire Harris:

Thank you. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I've spent more than 30 years in the energy industry and I've had many different roles over the years, such as operations, technical services, environment, supply chain, and performance improvement. And although I've spent the last 20 years working in nuclear, I've also worked in coal plants and oil fire generating stations and on major projects. Each plant, each project has its own culture. Every team also has its own culture. And so I've become very curious about what makes a culture healthy and what do we need to do in order to create that healthy culture of safety.

 

Jason Price:

Well, that's great. We're thrilled to have you, Claire, and this is an important topic. So I want to start with your career shift. Last time we talked to you on the show you were entrenched with NB Power, but as we noted in the intro, you're now striking it out on your own. Tell us a bit about that decision and that journey.

 

Claire Harris:

Thank you. The decision came in a bit of a surprising way. I had originally planned to stay at NB Power until I was 60. I had worked my whole career with New Jersey Power and I loved the career that I built there. So I was really pretty comfortable and I was planning to stay there and maybe at 60 start my own company. And I'd always wanted to start a company in the area of nuclear safety culture or more safety culture in general and performance improvement.

So I was attending a workshop in the fall, and one of the facilitators of the workshop kind of posed the question, what would you do if you weren't afraid? What would you do if you fully trusted yourself? And it was very clear to me that I would strike out on my own. I would start my own company and I would work with many different organizations, well mainly around energy, but in the area of culture and safety culture. So that's what I did. I came home from that workshop and I told my husband, "You know what, I'm going to leave and I'm going to start my own company." And that's what I've done, and it's been a great decision and I've been really quite busy ever since I started the company in early 2024.

 

Jason Price:

Well, that's really interesting because you had a lot of exposure at the utility in a variety of different ways. You've explored some of that in the previous podcast that we had. So let's talk about that a bit more. Why is this the area of focus? Why has this become your passion?

 

Claire Harris:

Well, I've always been one of those people who's looking for ways to improve my life. I'm looking at wellness and just, I guess, looking for ways to change what I'm doing to improve my lifestyle. I'm always picking up new books and reading about different ways to look at the world. And so I'm also really curious about what makes people tick and what makes a leader a good leader, what motivates people to want to do better? And when I was thinking about what I would do on my own, I remember at the time about, I think it was the early 2000s, and I was working in the area of nuclear safety culture, safety culture. And it was one of those times in my life that I was truly lit up. And I loved the fact that I was learning about what was working for each of the teams, what was working for each of the leaders.

I had the great pleasure of working with a man named Charles Packer, and he was the vice president at Darlington Nuclear Generating Station for many years. And then he had gone on his own to work in the area of safety culture. And we had together developed identity statements and action statements, and we came up with ways to help people look at safety culture in a tangible real way. And so this kind of ties together with, recently I was reading the book by James Clear called Atomic Habits. And I thought, what if we actually develop habits for a healthy safety culture and really focused on what are those habits that help people do better in the workplace when it comes to safety? So that's what I wanted to work on, and that's why I decided to instead of trying to do that on the side and just try to find time in my spare time to work on this, I decided to go out on my own and to build that.

 

Jason Price:

You noted in your writings, and you've spoken about in the past, that safety isn't an action or just a checklist. It's instead a culture and mirrors someone personally trying to build healthy habits for themselves. So what are the types of habits that make up a culture of safety in the utility industry?

 

Claire Harris:

I've written about the 10 habits of a healthy safety culture and I'm going to touch on a few of them now, and there could be more, there could be less. But every time I look at this, these 10 habits really do stand the test of time. I'm going to touch on a few, but I won't go all through them. And if anyone's interested, of course they can reach out to me anytime at cleanenergyconnections.ca. But the 10 key habits, for example, upholding high standards. So upholding high standards is key to, I guess everything that we do in our lives. It's not about being a perfectionist, it's really just the opposite. It's saying that we really should work every day to uphold high standards for ourselves and our teams, being on time, being respectful of people's time, and having good tight meetings that don't waste people's time, using clear agendas and goals. Just keeping high standards at the forefront of our minds helps in all aspects of building good traits for a culture of safety.

Another healthy habit is questioning and challenging to get it right. So we need to create a workplace where people feel comfortable questioning and challenging each other. We added the, to get it right, on purpose because we don't want just to question and challenge each other and debate all day long. But when you're working towards developing healthy safety culture, oftentimes people will hold back and not question and challenge because they're trying to work as a team. And so they think that by questioning each other that you may actually erode the team. But that doesn't happen when you know that you're helping each other get it right from a safety point of view.

And listening openly and speaking honestly, we want to build a habit of listening with an open mind and then speaking or responding in an honest manner. It ties back to the question of challenging, but really we want to make sure that people feel, again safe to speak and that they feel that they're being listened to. So the leader has to try hard not to allow their own experiences and biases to cloud a person's experience. And that person needs to share honestly, with an open mind and what they're experiencing in the workplace. So this is just a view of the examples of the habits.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah, no, that's excellent. Solid, solid suggestions. And you talked about leaders, and I want to talk about leadership because there's no utility executive would be anti-safety, but I'm sure that with all the competing priorities and all the challenges, it's not just something you're trained on but has to be, how should I say, part of the culture of the company. So it's not on one person, but it's an entire culture. So can you talk about how do you approach that with leadership? And also do you find it more effective from a culture standpoint to be from the top-down, voice from the top-down or from the field-up, from the bottom-up? If you could share your perspectives on that, that'd be helpful.

 

Claire Harris:

That's a really good question, and I think the answer would be it's yes to all of it. We all need to work together and understand that we all make a difference when it comes to creating a healthy safety culture in the workplace. And I do want to be clear that I would be the poster child for safety culture. I have to practice the habits just like everyone else. And I would say for me, it was harder to practice a lot of these habits when I had a new team and I was building new relationships. I didn't want people to think that I was always telling them what to do, and I felt that I had to prove myself to my team. And then once I had the relationships established, I could practice the habits more. But looking back on those times when I was building new teams, those were probably the months that I was establishing the relationships.

Those would be the months that I was probably putting safety culture on the back burner and probably at the expense of my team. I wasn't faced with having any major issues and thank goodness I wasn't. But when I think back about over the last 30 years, the times that I had my employees more at risk, where there was times when I was trying to build relationships and putting nuclear safety or safety culture on the back burner. I think we all have a part to play. Employees, executives, leaders, supervisors, tradespeople, we just all have to practice together and respect each other enough to know that we can coach up, we can coach down, we can coach our peers, we can coach each other. It's really all about helping each other. But most importantly, it's really about holding up the mirror and coaching ourselves. So asking ourselves, am I upholding high standards? Am I creating a sense of belonging? Am I listening openly? So coaching ourselves is probably always one of the challenging things.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah. And you mentioned nuclear, so I want to talk to you about that. When you were at NB Power, you focused on nuclear safety. So what in your mind is different from the challenges that you face in nuclear capacity than just in general? So could you share with us what are some lessons learned that are unique to nuclear, but at the same time cross any kind of power generation or any facility that needs to address safety as part of its operating process?

 

Claire Harris:

Right, thank you. And yes, my focus is on nuclear there, but I believe that a culture of safety just is required in every aspect. I mean, every utility, every type of generating station, it's important to have that culture of safety. I think the reason I guess that I come back to the nuclear safety culture is because it's regulated and there's a little bit more focus on it, but it's important everywhere. I started my career in a coal-fired generating station, and I would say that although I've spent the last 20 years in nuclear, many of those years were spent in coal, oil and major projects. Each station, each team has its own culture. But I do recall a time that I was working on a major project at an oil-fired station and a toolbox fell off a scaffold about 20 feet above my head. Thankfully, the box did not hit my head, but a wrenched did.

And while I had my hard hat on and I was shaking up, I wasn't really hurt. I didn't report it at the time, and I'm ashamed to say that because I could have, but someone else could have been really hurt by the fact that I hadn't reported it. But I didn't report it because I was a young woman at a power plant. I was trying to fit in. I didn't want the guys to think I was going to tell on them. I didn't want to draw much attention to myself. And I think the culture of reporting has improved over the years at all utilities, but I do know that the culture of learning and sharing experience at the nuclear plant does lend itself to better reporting. I think that there's some lessons that can be learned across the whole industry about creating that safe space for people to feel comfortable reporting an incident so that others can be safer from the reporting of that.

 

Jason Price:

That's a, how should I say this, both a frightening but an amazing learning experience in real time. Thanks for sharing that Claire, but let's learn a little bit more about what you're bringing to the table. So as I understand it, you have been really studying safety in all its aspects for quite some time. So as you approach it, as I understand your training and your strategy is really looking and understanding who the audience is and everyone is different. And safety practices are delivered different based on the background or who your audience you're talking to.

So for example, how you train a new employee versus an old needs to be addressed and differentiated. Someone who has a history of working in the industry versus someone who's new to the industry, or someone who's a nuclear versus someone who's in a different power source, maybe coming from coal. All of those need to be factored in, in your training. At least that's how you feel the approach needs to take. So those that are listening in on this conversation, those that focus on safety and training at the utility, what would you like to share with them, how you see things and why this approach is important?

 

Claire Harris:

I would say that the best way to look at your safety culture and to implement any changes would be obviously to start at the very top with a strategy that's going to ensure that the leadership is going to be aligned to the teams as they start to work on their safety culture. I know we all have an innate desire to belong to a team and to belong to a team that cares about keeping each other safe. And so once that's established, then I think you can go down into the teams and work with small groups of people to understand where they are. A team of people, in my experience, the operators at a plant typically understand maybe what's required to keep them safe from an operations point of view. They may not know what it takes to keep themselves safe from a maintenance point of view because they're more focused on operations.

So I think you need to go down and really understand what each team is doing and then build an individualized playbook for each of those teams and the organization to move the needle on the culture of safety. I think it's easier to train new people right out of school because I know for myself, for me, I have to unlearn old behaviors, old ways of behaving. And for the newer people coming into organizations, training them with that culture of safety mindset may be easier as long as the leaders are truly committed to upholding those behaviors themselves. Because when a young person comes into a team or a new person comes into a team and they have all this training about having a good culture of safety, but the people that they're working with aren't actually behaving that way, it's very difficult to continue to uphold your healthy culture of safety when those around you are not.

 

Jason Price:

Yeah, I agree. And I liked your comments about how you really have to not formulaic, I think of what you're saying here, and I think you need to really understand your audience. Yeah. So let's explore that a little bit further with a twist, and that is 2020, we faced a pandemic and even it still has ramifications today obviously. Whenever I have meetings with utilities, they may only be on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, not on Mondays and Fridays and Thursdays. So how do you manage a culture that's now been disaggregated, it's dispersed. How does a utility manage a culture in the new world, post-COVID?

 

Claire Harris:

Yes, COVID has certainly changed the world of work, and it is definitely one of the hardest things. I think this hybrid work world, knowing how people really are, it's very difficult being a supervisor of an employee who you really only see maybe once a week, once every two weeks to really get a sense of how they're really doing. And when we turn our camera on, we're typically, we're ready for the camera. But can you feel people's, like a real sense of energy and you look them in the eye. You can do what you can through the screen, but it's just not the same as actually standing beside them and really kind of leaning in and seeing how they really are. And so I think safety culture is impacted greatly by a person's state of mind. And if you don't really know how your employee's doing, it's very difficult to measure.

I think in the world of maintenance and operations where people are actually going to be essentially touching the plant, you're still going to have people physically there. And so when it comes to people physically in the plant, you're going to be able to manage the culture there. But the designers that are designing systems that are perhaps virtual, how do we know for sure that say the designers are practicing a healthy safety culture? I think it's really through getting leaders to reach back in and to truly have in-depth conversations with their employees. I think that the hybrid world has required supervisors to go above and beyond to understand how their people's states of mind are.

 

Jason Price:

Those are great points. Safety, you can never have enough emphasis on safety, especially in the utility industry. So this is a really important conversation. I want to thank you again, Claire, for sharing this insight. I know that a lot of listeners will appreciate and be able to relate to a lot that you've been talking about. I know from my own experience, whenever I go into a meeting, there's often a safety first message that is displayed. Sometimes we're the ones actually giving that safety message, might be based on some seasonality, might be based on some recent event, or something that's just we should always be mindful of.

But safety, you can never have enough safety. But at the same time, we still struggle with always necessarily keeping that top of mind. So thank you again for that. And Claire, we're going to give you the final word, but we want to pivot now to learn a little bit more about you the person, rather than you the professional in what we call the lightning round. I think you're familiar with it from the last time we had you on. We have five questions we want to ask you and give you the opportunity to respond with one word or phrase. So are you ready?

 

Claire Harris:

I am ready.

 

Jason Price:

Okay. Since you are from the New Brunswick area, what is the most underrated aspect of your region of Canada?

 

Claire Harris:

I think a lot of people say they drive through New Brunswick to get to either Quebec, or Nova Scotia, or Prince Edward Island. But in New Brunswick, it is a beautiful province and we have gorgeous trails and beautiful waterfalls to see whenever you get deep into those trails. So I would say the Fundy Trail would be the most underrated aspect of New Brunswick.

 

Jason Price:

What's your favorite guilty pleasure?

 

Claire Harris:

Oh, I hate to admit it, but I love watching the Amazing Race.

 

Jason Price:

Who were your role models growing up?

 

Claire Harris:

Well, I certainly learned a lot about resilience from my mom. My mom was, or is, she's still with us, thank goodness. She is one of the most resilient women I have ever known. She can just figure anything out that comes her way. So I learned resilience from my mother. And I would have to say Charles Packer, who I worked with on nuclear safety culture was the other key role model in my work world.

 

Jason Price:

What was your first job?

 

Claire Harris:

My first job was when I was 14 years old and it was at a convenience store. I was working at a convenience store. And then when the convenience store closed, I went next door to Cook Fried Chicken.

 

Jason Price:

And lastly, what motivates you the most?

 

Claire Harris:

I'm motivated by what makes people tick. I'm motivated by how do people change the world by changing themselves. I think that we're faced with significant, I don't know, world concerns around climate change, and I just am motivated by people who really want to make a difference.

 

Jason Price:

Well, nicely done Claire. And to remind you, we have an audience of utility professionals. So knowing that they are listening in on this conversation, what is a piece of advice or something you'd like to make sure that they leave the conversation with today? So share us what your closing thoughts would be.

 

Claire Harris:

I would say that building habits for a culture of safety takes intention and focus. It doesn't just happen. I could say I want to be healthier in my own life, but if I don't practice healthy habits, it's just not going to happen by my thoughts of it. So being intentional about what type of culture you want to create and then go and practice the habits to create that safety culture.

 

Jason Price:

Fantastic. Nicely done and really appreciate you coming back to share this wisdom with us. You certainly bring a lengthy and proven history in the utility space. And I really appreciate each and every word you've shared with us. So I want to thank you again for joining us on the podcast. And don't be surprised if you have some members of the community who will reach out and ask you questions. And please continue to stay engaged with the Energy Central community

 

Claire Harris:

Well, thank you very much, and I'll be watching for any comments or questions that come my way.

 

Jason Price:

Absolutely. And again, if listeners have a question, a comment to share, certainly reach out through the platform. As well as, listeners can head to the SpeakPipe link, we'll leave in the show notes where you can leave a message, a recorded message for our future guest. We'll listen through them, pick out the right guests in a future lineup, and you may hear your own voice as part of the conversation. So we want to also give a shout out, a thanks to the podcast sponsors that made today's episode possible. Thanks to West Monroe. West Monroe is a leading partner for the nation's largest electric, gas and water utilities, working together to drive grid modernization, clean energy, and workforce transformation.

West Monroe's comprehensive services are designed to support utilities in advancing their digital transformation, building resilient operations, securing federal funding, and providing regulatory advisory support. With a multidisciplinary team of experts, West Monroe offers a holistic approach that addresses the challenges of the grid today and provides innovative solutions for a sustainable future. Once again, I'm your host Jason Price. Plug in and stay fully charged in the discussion by hopping into the community at energycentral.com. And we'll see you next time at the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast.

 

About Energy Central Podcasts

The ‘Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast’ features conversations with thought leaders in the utility sector. At least twice monthly, we connect with an Energy Central Power Industry Network community member to discuss compelling topics that impact professionals who work in the power industry. Some podcasts may be a continuation of thought-provoking posts or discussions started in the community or with an industry leader that is interested in sharing their expertise and doing a deeper dive into hot topics or issues relevant to the industry.

The ‘Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast’ is the premiere podcast series from Energy Central, a Power Industry Network of Communities built specifically for professionals in the electric power industry and a place where professionals can share, learn, and connect in a collaborative environment. Supported by leading industry organizations, our mission is to help global power industry professionals work better. Since 1995, we’ve been a trusted news and information source for professionals working in the power industry, and today our managed communities are a place for lively discussions, debates, and analysis to take place. If you’re not yet a member, visit www.EnergyCentral.com to register for free and join over 200,000 of your peers working in the power industry.

The Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast is hosted by Jason Price, Community Ambassador of Energy Central. Jason is a Business Development Executive at West Monroe, working in the East Coast Energy and Utilities Group. Jason is joined in the podcast booth by the producer of the podcast, Matt Chester, who is also the Community Manager of Energy Central and energy analyst/independent consultant in energy policy, markets, and technology.  

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