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The Next President and Energy Policy

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Editor’s Note: The presidential election is over, with a rather stunning result. And while we will soon begin to explore the implications of this result, it is worth examining how we got here. This piece from OurEnergyPolicy.org from election day recalls what, exactly, the candidates’ energy policies were supposed to be.

With the presidential race ending this week, one concern expressed by some has been the lack of any substantive discussion about US energy policy. While Mr. Trump has often mentioned reviving the coal industry as part of a larger emphasis on policies that leverage the country’s domestic energy resources, Secretary Clinton’s campaign has said her policies will look to grow clean energy resources like wind and solar energy. But after three debates, many believe the country needs more information from both candidates on this topic. A recent debate (video here) however between campaign advisors for Mr. Trump and Secretary Clinton may have offered a chance to learn more about each candidate’s energy agenda.

Speaking to Mr. Trump’s priorities, Representative Kevin Cramer (R-ND) focused on the economic costs of climate change and often referenced the Paris Accord as another trade deal undermining America’s energy interests. Rep. Cramer argued the United States is a relatively small greenhouse gas emitter but it is being relied on heavily to cut emissions. “If the United States ceased to exist tomorrow … we wouldn’t affect the temperature in the next 50 years on the globe,” Cramer said. Trevor Houser, Clinton’s top energy advisor, reaffirmed her vision of an expanded role for low-carbon sources to supply the nation’s energy. Houser emphasized Clinton view’s that climate challenges are directly related to society’s use of carbon intensive fuel sources like coal.

Cramer and Houser also discussed how their candidates would address the economic consequences of the country’s reduced dependence on coal. Houser argued the transition away from coal began long ago. To aid those communities impacted by this transition, Houser stated that Secretary Clinton is prepared to invest government resources in new economic opportunities. In response, Cramer said “The government should not be determining who gets a job and who gets a government program. They ought to be out of the business of determining those things and let the market decide.”

1) What are the most important energy policy issues the next President and the 115th Congress must address going forward?

2) What is the most effective way of dealing with the coal industry and its thousands of workers?

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Rick Engebretson's picture
Rick Engebretson on November 9, 2016

Perhaps a more important climate step was taken yesterday by the government of India requiring the bank deposit of rupees now stored in corrupt officials’ mattresses. Corruption is a lock AGAINST change. Change has been America’s religion since our founding. Change allowed China to blossom, the Soviet Union to collapse, India is the next to bloom.

The race for innovation in energy must be unleashed. And will, with absolute certainty, NOT be a race to pulverize the Earth’s crust extracting fossil carbon that suffocates us. Today’s global knowledge-base and skills set has no parallel, and must be invested in global peace and prosperity. Those that made an effort to listen to Trump’s goals hear this ambition. It is really a Roosevelt, Truman, and Obama echo the Republicans actually booed. America was “great” when defeated foes Japan and Germany invented better cars than us.

America has never voted for war or suppression. Always for new ideas.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 9, 2016

2) What is the most effective way of dealing with the coal industry and its thousands of workers?

Construction trades for most of them.  Put ’em to work pouring concrete, bending and welding steel and pulling wire for new nuclear plants.  Modern surface mining methods have essentially automated all the coal jobs away anyway.  Nuke construction generates several thousand jobs per site.  It would not be difficult to employ the 83,000 people now engaged in coal mining with a serious building program; it would take about 40 projects going at once.  Putting in 400 units at 5 years apiece, you’ve got 50 years of work ahead.

Finishing 8 units a year at 1000 MW(e) average generation adds 70 TWh of emissions-free electricity every year.  This will take around 45 years to decarbonize the US electric grid.  If we start by 2020, we’ll be 2/3 done by 2050.

Thorkil Soee's picture
Thorkil Soee on November 9, 2016

Thanks for being realistic.
France made their nuclear fleet in a short time and have cheap and clean power.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 9, 2016

Realistic?  Me?  Just wait until I finish re-writing my proposal to build 2 units a DAY.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 9, 2016

Rick, what nonsense. You apparently have made no effort whatsoever to “listen to Trump’s goals”, otherwise you would hear your neo-fascist hero racing full-speed-ahead to pulverize the Earth’s crust and “extract the fossil carbon that suffocates us”.

President Trump Will Be Awful for Clean Energy, Climate Change Fight

Perhaps you, too, were bewitched by his focus on Hillary’s emails. Mining coal is a new idea, is it?

Rick Engebretson's picture
Rick Engebretson on November 10, 2016

The election results show a sharp divide between rural and urban voters. Urbanites don’t provide food, energy, shelter, waste management or any basic human needs. Even manufacturing has moved to China. Foreign allies like France and Germany are shocked we won’t fight a war of choice with Russia.

You have nothing except large numbers of angry, helpless people. As a University scientist, one of my first rural learning experiences was unclogging a septic tank with a rope around my waist in case I fell in. I work wearing heavy leather gloves always. We can’t forever take care of a generation of screaming babies that won’t grow up.

Helmut Frik's picture
Helmut Frik on November 10, 2016

And you think I haven’t done such work? Well, then you’d wonder a lot about people here. Foreign allies like France or germany have fought your war of choice in Afghanistan for example. That’s what allies are for. IT might not always be visible, and the us as bigger partner usually carries the biggest load. Also different loads are mostly carried by different allies – the US carrys more cost for mombs and soldiers, germany is usually generous then for reconstruction and taking care of refugees. Both is neccesary. Putin was already “successful” in growing the german army in personal, tanks and other equipment again. Which will continue independent of the US president. But I guess you will not read about this in your newspaper. But that’s off-topic here.

Rick Engebretson's picture
Rick Engebretson on November 10, 2016

Obama was elected and given a Nobel Prize for Peace. Trump was drowned out with boos in early primary debates by Republican hawks. Neither Bush presidents voted for him and made it very public. We intend to invest in domestic development. South Korea and Japan are in the same camp as Germany and France. We also intend to care for afflicted soldiers from Korea, VietNam to now. Those are election facts.

What you do in Germany is your decision. If the tattooed city punks want to turn off their lights and stop traffic, fine. But we are helping feed 7 billion people, with excessive biomass that stretches from the Gulf of Mexico to Hudson Bay. If you and the rest insist on being useless, that’s fine, too.

Helmut Frik's picture
Helmut Frik on November 10, 2016

Well I guess you should come over for a while and learn a bit more about the people here. You’d not find much tatood city punks,
We do not have so many square km /miles than you have, so we cannot compete on tons produced, but stll germany is No 3 in the world in export value of agricultural goods : https://www.bmel.de/EN/Agriculture/Market-Trade-Export/_Texte/Zahlen-Fak... And as No 1 exporter of agricultural technology we supply you with the tools to feed as many people as possible, as we do with the rest of the world.

Rick Engebretson's picture
Rick Engebretson on November 10, 2016

I visited the laboratory of Dr. Fritz Berthold in Baden Baden in the 1980s. His dad was a leading nuclear scientist during WWII so the lab was built away from Berlin. We were interested in photon counters (derived from Geiger counters) to be used in chemiluminescent immunoassays (instead of radioisotope immunoassays). My jobs was instrumentation, and I realized a (bound vs. unbound antibody) separation was possible numerically on then new PCs. It helped for mass testing like for AIDS.

I remain puzzled why Berthold’s army barracks WWII nuclear lab was a carbon copy of Otto Schmitt’s WWII army barracks computer lab at the U of MN??

Cute country. Heartbreaking you trashed it out.

Helmut Frik's picture
Helmut Frik on November 10, 2016

Well, if you come here again you wil not find much “trash out”, just less nuclear power production. But nice you traveled abroad at some times too. But if you like tell me what you think went wrong, and what you liked most then.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 10, 2016

Rick, befitting Trump himself, it’s not surprising you can’t recognize urban housing is vastly more efficient and less wasteful than most “rural” (i.e., estate) housing, and that growth/consumption has limits.

Or did you think the smoke from your wood fire just “disappears”? Shame, my mom taught me to clean up after myself. Who’s the screaming baby?

Rick Engebretson's picture
Rick Engebretson on November 10, 2016

Europe was built integrated with water. Small intensive farms perpetually nurtured soil quality. Structures were built for centuries. Many in the US learned from that model but need to learn more. Any tourist guide highlights green Europe. Soil productivity, water, food, biofuel, and Carbon sequestration are simply different features of the same activity.

My kids have traveled too much. The most interesting thing for me in Germany now is Linux programmers. The best are all German or Dutch (etc.) and if they stop documenting their work in English I’m stuck.

Mark Heslep's picture
Mark Heslep on November 10, 2016

…That’s what allies are for. IT might not always be visible, and the us as bigger partner usually carries the biggest load….Putin was already “successful” in growing the german army in personal, tanks and other equipment again. Which will continue independent of the US president…

Fortunately, talking around the issue of allied cooperation with vague adjectives like “bigger” and “generous” can be avoided in this case, as there is a quantified agreement. NATO members have a defense commitment of 2% of GDP, period. Germany’s defense spending in 2016 is 1.2%, almost $30B short, as it was in 2015, 2014. The US spends 3.6%. I would have US’s defense spending go down a bit, and Germany’s up, thank you.

Mark Heslep's picture
Mark Heslep on November 10, 2016

I suspect Trump ends up better on clean energy than Clinton, given an observation of actual results versus what might feel good.

First, the majority of the decline in US carbon emissions over the last 10 years has come from the advent of cheaper natural gas from hydraulic fracking and horizontal drilling. Clinton was unambiguous about fracking, she planned to completely destroy it. She planned to replace gas with lots of solar panels, but we know from Germany and other attempts that this is nonsense. What happens instead is coal plants stay where there are, and electric rates double.

Second, though Clinton made agnostic statements about nuclear, much of her circle contains ardent anti-nuclear people, especially some of the big dollar donors. With her background of corruption, I think a Jackzo 2.0 gets installed under a Clinton presidency at the NRC, slow walking nuclear and demanding design changes in construction making nuclear look slow and expensive. Meanwhile she’s allowed to feign support. Trump is i) aggressive about all forms of energy, and ii) has strongly supported a reduction in spurious regulation.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 10, 2016

Mark, Trump got elected, in part, by promising to promote coal, open up drilling for oil on federal lands, approve Keystone XL, and dismember the EPA. Since we won’t have the opportunity to perform an “observation of actual results” for years hence, I’m mystified by your prediction he “ends up better on clean energy”. Historically speaking, reducing regulation and being “aggressive about all forms of energy” has ended up with American energy companies burning the dirtiest, cheapest energy they can find.

No, to use one of his favorite words, a Trump administration will be categorically – definitively – a Disaster for clean energy and for the environment. He’s already forgotten about Hillary’s emails and Benghazi, because they were never more than a ticket to the White House. The freezer pack of Trump Steaks you bought which taste like shoe leather, and for which you’ll never get your money back.

Undoubtedly, the most accomplished con man in U.S. history.

Mark Heslep's picture
Mark Heslep on November 10, 2016

And Clinton promised to kill fracked gas, all of it, and coal, and replace it with solar PV. I know where that leads, imported gas and a status quo coal fleet, with a lot of money spent on solar. As you well know, there’s no need to wait around and see how that works out, the play has already been run abroad. Fumble. This is what I mean by results.

In the United States, the federal government, even Don-the-Con’s version, does not build coal plants. The federal government, even Trump’s version, can’t make coal cheaper than $2.50/mmbtu gas burned in a 60% CCGT built in 15 months for less than $1/Watt. Also, many forget that the states have their own environmental agencies. The states don’t like acid rain and coal PM in their skies, coal tailings in their rivers. It is these state agencies, not the EPA, that do the large majority of enforcement in the US, always have since there was such a thing.

The EPA did not order US emissions to drop 11% in the last ten years, fracked gas did (with a little help from wind).

And then there’s nuclear. I strongly suspect Clinton would have appointed a Jaczko 2.0 to run the NRC, a pander to the anti-nuclear Sierra Club crowd and grown-large solar/wind interests that support and funnel money to her, and a bullet in the head to the many innovative nuclear start-up firms.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 11, 2016

Urban housing is hostile to families with children.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 11, 2016

Trump got elected, in part, by promising to promote coal, open up drilling for oil on federal lands, approve Keystone XL, and dismember the EPA.

And if we can get him to dismantle the NRC (or at least roll back its direct and indirect costs by something sensible, like 90%) we will kill natural gas and oil with nuclear power.

Nuclear in the late 60’s was cheaper than coal because reactors were smaller and far simpler than huge boilers with their refractories, stacks and everything else.  We can do this again:  imagine mass-production NuScales coming in at $2000/kW.  The reactor units themselves are swappable, so they can simply be replaced at refueling time when they start showing wear.

At $2000/kW, 80% CF, 7% ROI and 30 year amortization, financing costs $0.023/kWh.  Fuel is another $0.007/kWH, total about $0.030/kWh before non-fuel O&M.  Natural gas at $4.50/mmBTU and 50% thermal efficiency costs roughly the same just for fuel.  Fossil fuels wouldn’t stand a chance.

Helmut Frik's picture
Helmut Frik on November 11, 2016

Thats why spendings for defense are rising again in germany, after shrinking it in peacetime. Independent of defense budgets in the US. So far the US have been not unlucky with the share of loads, giving the US the control where military action happened, and leaving the tasks of reconstruction afterwards to others. This allowed the US to be “strong” and the germans to be non-militaristic, which suited both sides well in internal politics.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 11, 2016

EP, whatever you think about Trump’s endorsement by the Ku Klux Klan, of his qualifications limited to insulting others and grabbing women’s p——, of his ignorance, intolerance, and childish sensitivity to any perceived slight, our Con-Man-In-Chief will put the final nail in U.S. nuclear’s coffin:

“The permitting process for nuclear power needs to be reformed, Trump explained. He qualified this statement saying “we have to be careful” because nuclear power “does have issues.” Trump specified that he favored the development of natural gas over nuclear energy in the same interview: “we’re the Saudi Arabia times 100 of natural gas, but we don’t use it.”

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/20/heres-where-the-2016-candidates-stand-...

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 11, 2016

Urban kids probably do have to clean up after themselves more, grow up more aware of their impact on others, and with an understanding that kids of different skin colors are basically the same – without a tribal aversion to them.

Possibly, good training for becoming responsible members of society.

Mark Heslep's picture
Mark Heslep on November 11, 2016

The clipped lead of that reference on Trump’s 2011, Fukushima aftermath comment was …

“…nuclear is a way we get what we have to get, which is energy.”

“I’m in favor of nuclear energy, very strongly in favor of nuclear energy,” Trump said. “If a plane goes down people keep flying. If you get into an auto crash people keep driving.”

The permitting process for nuclear power needs to be reformed, …”

Rex Berglund's picture
Rex Berglund on November 12, 2016

Stop Trump! Sign the petition!

The electoral college has the constitutional authority and the moral obligation to cast their ballots for the winner of the popular vote.

Ask the electoral college to stop Trump!

Mr. Trump is unfit, publicly saying he would possibly use nuclear weapons in the Middle East. Of all the nations in the world, only Russia applauds him. Vladimir Putin was a KGB colonel, and he’s pro Trump. Federal investigators believe Russian hackers were behind election cyberattacks.

The FBI director’s email announcement days before the election should be investigated as a violation of the Hatch Act.

Trump wants to turn back the fight on climate change, retreating in a battle we must win!

Do not allow this travesty to stand!

I signed 24 hours ago, and there are now 1 million more votes in just that one day, join us!

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 12, 2016

one of Trump’s first intended Executive Orders will be to nullify the Paris Climate Agreement. Because Executive Orders are limited by judicial precedent to clarification of existing law, nullification of anything would not qualify

If your wife knew anything about the separation of powers, she would know that the Paris climate agreement isn’t anything close to law because the Senate hasn’t so much as scheduled a vote to ratify it; the Republican majority would have turned it down anyway.  Even if ratified, implementing it would still require enabling legislation before the executive branch can act… lawfully.

However much you and I want action on climate change, Obama is the one who has been acting imperial and Trump has declared he’s going to run the executive branch within the limits of its lawful authority.  That means he has the authority to take un-ratified documents that jug-ears negotiated and is trying to put into force all on his own and toss them in the shredder.

Chindia is spewing GHGs at a mind-blowing rate.  What we do and how fast we do it matters a lot less than it used to.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 12, 2016

The electoral college has the constitutional authority and the moral obligation to cast their ballots for the winner of the popular vote.

Many states have “faithless elector” laws which render a “vote of conscience” null and void, and even treat them as having resigned on the spot (effectively replacing them).  They have to vote as the voters of their state tell them to vote.

Besides, it looks like the final counting shows Trump getting a narrow majority of the popular vote too.  The whole reason we have the EC in the first place is to prevent a few major metropolitan areas from out-voting the rest of the country.  They already out-vote the bulk of many states, and you can see how poorly that’s been working out.

Mark Heslep's picture
Mark Heslep on November 12, 2016

Take up reconstruction in some other treaty. For NATO, zwei percent defense spending.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 12, 2016

EP, “Chindia” is spewing GHGs at a mind-blowing rate? I’d point out we’re spewing them nine/sixteen times as fast on a per-capita basis, but your head might explode.

So continue your Trump-esque assignment of blame to others for problems you (and I) have created; I won’t join you. If only it wasn’t for those people with dark skin. By your estimation, it was “the blacks” in Flint who created the drinking water problem, not Rick Snyder having to slash public funding so he could pay for tax breaks to the wealthiest Michiganders.

I should be thankful you labeled Obama “jug-ears” and not “n—-r lips”, but it’s only a matter of time once your Grand Dragon takes office. Admit it – it was David Duke’s endorsement which brought you on board, wasn’t it?

Rex Berglund's picture
Rex Berglund on November 13, 2016

The Ku Klux Klan says it will hold a Trump victory parade in North Carolina.

The difference between Clinton and Trump is like night and day. If the electoral college has any call to intervene, this is it.

Just did a search, all sources confirm Clinton’s popular vote lead increasing as results come in, the Atlantic, NYTimes, NBC, CNN, etc.

As explained in the following, electors in 26 states are bound by State Law or by pledges to cast their vote for a specific candidate, so clearly 24 are not:

U. S. Electoral College

The deeply flawed election process had severe indications of impropriety as I’ve already pointed out. Further, the half dozen doomsday scenarios imagined for humanity always include nuclear war and runaway climate change. Trump is on the wrong side of both of those issues.

The following is from

The Reason for the Electoral College

‘As Alexander Hamilton writes in “The Federalist Papers,” the Constitution is designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” The point of the Electoral College is to preserve “the sense of the people,” while at the same time ensuring that a president is chosen “by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.”’

4 years of backsliding on climate change – if the electoral college is just a rubber stamp, we’d be better off without it.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 13, 2016

EP, thanks for the correction on the treaty which wasn’t. Looks like Trump will have the authority to ignore Obama’s pledge to (try) to deal with global warming. Maybe that’s a good thing, it would likely be ineffectual anyway.

I’ll return the favor. State faithless elector laws are indeed ones which will fall to the Article VI Supremacy Clause – for the time being, the U.S. Constitution reigns supreme. Seems like you want EC when it works in your favor, not when it doesn’t – that’s sounding remarkably familiar.

The “whole reason we have the electoral college” is not to prevent a few major metropolitan areas from out-voting the rest of the country. It’s to prevent duping of the electorate – a purpose which seems remarkably prescient, and apropos:

“Hamilton and the other founders believed that the electors would be able to insure that only a qualified person becomes President. They believed that with the Electoral College no one would be able to manipulate the citizenry. It would act as check on an electorate that might be duped. Hamilton and the other founders did not trust the population to make the right choice. The founders also believed that the Electoral College had the advantage of being a group that met only once and thus could not be manipulated over time by foreign governments or others.”

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 13, 2016

It appears that the mod filter is allergic to truth and frankness, so I have to post it in small chunks to stay under its censorious radar.  A pity; this is much more readable as one piece.

I’d point out we’re spewing them nine/sixteen times as fast on a per-capita basis

Quantity has a quality all its own, and the planet cares only about totals.  The USA had a chance to go mostly nuclear around 1970… and the Rockefellers turned the nuclear future back towards regular old coal and oil.  That quit being so much oil after the OPEC price shocks nearly purged oil from the electric generation mix; maybe those scumbags did it for nothing.

If only it wasn’t for those people with dark skin.

FFS, man.  I just last evening read an article talking about the dispute between Indian coal and nuclear interests.  Are there no dark-skinned people with an interest in clean air?  It is to laugh.

So much of this relates to the Muslim/Hindu (actually, Muslim/all others) battle and the Non-Proliferation Treaty.  Had India not been under a uranium embargo after its weapons test (which it undertook to deter Chinese aggression and get the upper hand over hostile Pakistan), it might have gone mostly nuclear by now.  It looks like we may have acted against a smaller problem while ignoring a much bigger one.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 13, 2016

By your estimation, it was “the blacks” in Flint who created the drinking water problem

That they did, by first turning the city into a hell-hole that everyone else scrambled to get out of, and then by failing to pay their water bills (and the same refusal in Destroit which prompted its bureaucrats to jack up Flint’s rates to make up for it).  It was the struggle to cut costs which drove the decision to take water from the Flint river, and a Black emergency manager and Black city council which went for it.  I am certain that someone wearing a technical hat in the system warned them that pH control was essential if that was going to work, and I’m equally certain that our lying lamestream media will never, ever report that because The Narrative is that Blacks are always victims, never responsible even for their own actions.  Whoever issued the warning is now under criminal investigation and silenced by threats.

Shocked by plain talk, Bob?  That’s just proof that you’ve internalized the web of lies we live in.  We can’t afford it any more; it’s long past time for the shit-show of PC to go.

it’s only a matter of time once your Grand Dragon takes office.

The KKK would do a better job of running Flint and Destroit than the people who live there, because they have vastly better literacy than the natives (93% of students in Destroit fail reading proficiency) and white robes would scare the criminal class a lot more than blue uniforms do.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 13, 2016

That will never happen.  Today’s KKK is mostly Federal informants ratting on each other.  Did you know that the Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupiers had more Fed informants than actual activists?  There were no fewer than 15 informants.  Our government doesn’t fight crime, it manufactures it.

it was David Duke’s endorsement which brought you on board, wasn’t it?

Try George Soros.  He created Trump by financing terrorist groups like BLM, and made his victory inevitable.  The elite’s refusal to act after repeated outrages like Ft. Hood, San Bernardino, and the Pulse massacre guaranteed a backlash against muslim immigration too.  I’ve been speaking out against this for much of my life, but libtards (that’s you) called me nasty names and refused to listen.  You made this bed, you sleep in it.

Rex Berglund's picture
Rex Berglund on November 13, 2016

The Ku Klux Klan says it will hold a Trump victory parade in North Carolina. In related news, Trump vows unity.

The difference between Clinton and Trump is like the difference between night and day. If the electoral college will ever have call to intervene, this is it.

Just did a search, all sources confirm Clinton’s popular vote lead increasing as results come in, according to the Atlantic, NYTimes, NBC, CNN, and more.

Electors in 26 states are bound by State Law or by pledges to cast their vote for a specific candidate, so clearly 24 are not.

The deeply flawed election process had severe indications of impropriety, as I’ve already pointed out.

As Alexander Hamilton writes in “The Federalist Papers,” the Constitution is designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” The point of the Electoral College is to preserve “the sense of the people,” while at the same time ensuring that a president is chosen “by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.”

We must not allow 4 years of backsliding on climate change – if the electoral college is just a rubber stamp, we’d be better off without it.

(This is a repost without links, original still in moderation.)

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 13, 2016

The Ku Klux Klan says it will hold a Trump victory parade in North Carolina.

It’s a media event, likely paid for by Soros.  The current KKK is composed mostly of Federal informants and paid agents-provocateurs, with a few mentally-challenged people thrown in.  Trump is unlikely to even hear about it unless his people think he needs to be able to field press questions, and we can see that he doesn’t give a damn about the hostile press.

Bob Meinetz's picture
Bob Meinetz on November 13, 2016

EP, it’s been five days since the election – didn’t take long for you to show your true colors.

Your Malheur “activists” were criminals, welfare queens who felt entitled to land they didn’t own, so they took it. Informants are typically a great way to gather information on criminals, and the FBI did a stellar job of saving the Malheur lowlifes so they could engage in infantile mischief another day.

Since we’re being frank, burned any crosses yet? Curious what your heritage is – bet I could come up with plenty of examples of people blaming their problems on your lily-white forefathers, labeling them “terrorists” at their convenience, and spit on, and hated, and discriminated against.

The only truth is that you’re a racist, pure and simple, in the grand KKK tradition which civilized people in this country buried fifty years ago. If that sounds nasty, that’s your bed, you sleep in it. It’s pretty damn ugly, I’ll tell you that.

Engineer- Poet's picture
Engineer- Poet on November 14, 2016

Your Malheur “activists” were criminals, welfare queens who felt entitled to land they didn’t own, so they took it.

This single sentence has enough factual twists to be worthy of Duane Gish.  Giving it a proper fisking:

1.  The Bundys are not “mine”.
2.  The Federal government long ago laid claim to land which had been homesteaded; the ranchers don’t own it because it was yanked from them and Washington refuses to give it back or even sell.  It is essential to these people’s livelihoods; if they cannot continue to use it, they lose their incomes and homes which they’ve had sometimes for generations.  If anyone is stealing, it’s Washington.
3.  FedGov keeps changing and restricting the ways the ranchers are allowed to use the land, and start fights over interpretations of arcane rules written by people who live and work far away and have probably never seen what they’re controlling.  There is no obvious purpose to this except to try to drive ranchers out of business.  In the case of the land in Nevada, there seems to be a connection:  Harry Reid’s sons are negotiating deals with Chinese interests for that land, but they have to get the Americans off it first.  I’d call this treason, TYVM.

Since people with an independent family business and income are not under anyone’s corporate thumb, there is an obvious angle for the control freaks who want nothing that can stand up to them.

Since we’re being frank, burned any crosses yet?

This is the KKKrazy Glue that holds your narrative together.  I would literally know nothing about this alleged march if you didn’t keep bringing it up; it’s not one of my interests, why is it so important to you?  Fortunately, Scott Adams put together the details that I didn’t have time to:

So how do you explain-away Trump’s election if you think you are smart and you think you are well-informed and you think Trump is OBVIOUSLY a monster?

You solve for that incongruity by hallucinating – literally – that Trump supporters KNOW Trump is a monster and they PREFER the monster. In this hallucination, the KKK is not a nutty fringe group but rather a symbol of how all Trump supporters must feel.

Busted.

I’m not sure what they treat hallucinogenic disorders with nowadays.  Thorazine?  Whatever it is, you need to get on it so that you don’t burn the delusional thought pathways into your brain and require years of treatment to dig your way back out.

The only truth is that you’re a racist, pure and simple

If bearing ill-will to the people who’ve literally been spewing hate at me and mine since before I was born, who turned my mother’s beautiful childhood home into an empty lot, and who cheer at the thought of my personal and familial extinction is “racism”, know what?  Racism must not be so bad.  Everyone on earth is racist by that definition except certain brainwashed White people.  If they have a problem with me just wanting to be left alone to be me, they can fuck themselves.  That includes you.

Have a nice day.

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